This is Season 2 Episode 6: ‘Rose Bud Thorn (from April)’ By The Queer Conjure Podcast.
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Jasper: Ah, it's morning for me. It's not for you. Before we started, I looked up the moon and we're in a full moon in Virgo. So happy full moon in Virgo!
Ava: Thank you! Is it Virgo Sidereal, and then Libra, Tropical? Or vice versa?
Jasper: I think it's the first one you said, but I'm not an astrology person. So I did the numerology for today. So 3, 24, 24… shit. Nevermind. I did 3, 24, 24, not 3, 24, 2024. (Lots of laughter). So 17 and 8. Yeah. (Sing-song) What are numbers before you have coffee?
Ava: Yeah, that's so true. What are numbers in general?
Jasper: Well, I feel better about that because 15 and 6 was the Devil and the Lovers, and I'm always like, no! Because that's very much like, “hey honey, are you conflating love with hits of dopamine right now?”
Ava: Exactly, that just has a big whiff of codependency, doesn't it? (Laughter)
Jasper: 17, let's see… 17 is the star. So, the Star and Strength. I like that way better!
Ava: Yeah, that's really good. Also, we're entering into eclipse season. I was actually just reading, listening to an astrology thing, the Cosmic Musings, Witch at the Crossroads. You can sign up to the newsletter and you get weekly… Well, they just started redoing it again. It's so fun. I love it. And yeah, they're talking about the eclipse… but I think that Strength and the Star is always like a good message regardless of eclipse season or not. But I think eclipse is always bringing this, kind of like, fear mongering.
Jasper: I do hear a lot of people being like, don't do magic during eclipse season. Don't do manifestation during eclipse season. And I'm, I'm like, not sure I understand because I'm. My understanding is like, it's a little bit more shadowy, but it's not my understanding that an eclipse season is bad luck.
Ava: Yeah, you know, I kind of think that's internalized generational fears from when we looked at the sky and saw everything going dark and we were like “it's the end of the world! Oh no!” I actually started watching the show the other day called Three Body Problem and it's, like, this idea of communicating to beings outside of our planet by finding a massive speaker To the sun, because then the sun amplifies the message, and I was thinking about like, if you were to have an eclipse, you'd have all of these bodies lined up, and it seems like it would be really amplifying the message, so it seems like a great time to do magic, as long as your intentions are very clear.
Jasper: Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Yeah. Ooh, I love that. I guess also it would be a good time to really, like you said, really be intentional and really understand why you're asking for the thing. It's very much like a “be careful what you wish for”.There's always a shadowy part of what you desire. There's a Buddhist thing that's like “may what you desire also benefit all other beings”. And I've been tacking that on to the end of my spells because it really replaces a Wiccan way of ending a spell that I had learned, “if my will is my will so mote it be.” But I like changing it to “if this desire benefits all other beings, then let it be”.
Ava: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, that kind of takes the like, the power out of it. More of like an offering. Yeah. That is a good point. Eclipses are really associated with propelling you forward or slamming a door in your face. So if you have an intention that you're not really focused on or don't really sit with, you could see the results of that so quickly to a point where it could be shocking. And if it does harm other people, then you have to really feel that, you know?
Jasper: Should I pull a card now? (Ava: Yeah!) All right, I'll pull a card and we'll just like… I won't interpret it… Okay. Actually, I'm going to use the Spacious Tarot, and the Spacious Tarot has one of the most gentle, affirming guide books I've ever had, so I do want to read the guidebook and then just let that kind of… see how that informs our conversation.
Shuffling, shuffling. You and I had a conversation once about ASMR. And I was thinking, I would listen to a tarot reading ASMR where you hear the shuffling and you hear the cards slipping onto the table. Yes. I would listen to that.
Ava: I love tarot readers that like are just whispering and placing the cards. It’s like oooo I could take a little nap.
I remember when I very first started our TikTok, somebody was like, giggling at how terrible my shuffling is. So I was like, I'm not a magician. Like I'm not a stage magician.
Ava: Yeah, I don't work at the casino for a reason. (Jasper laughs.) I just learned how to bridge cards. I have really small hands, so I can't do it with most tarot decks because they’re too big for my hands. But I'm using my ancestor’s, an inherited duck, and it's been so loved that it is really bendy, and so I can actually do that! And like, oh! Oh the power you feel when you can do that with a tarot deck! It's just so satisfying. It's like stimming, you know?
Jasper: It is stimming! You're right! Ah, we got the Hermit which will be 2025's card. It's the card right after Strength. So, the Hermit. Which is number nine, the guidebook says “introspection, meditation, seeking. The Hermit brings you to a place of solid solitude and contemplation. Here you can withdraw from the noise of the outer world and seek the quiet messages of your inner world. The trees offer a clearing, a sacred space to reconnect with yourself. The lantern is a representation of your inner guidance system. Let it serve to illuminate your path. In order to live authentically, you must occasionally retreat from the norms of society. (I would say all the time! Ha!) Although this experience is beautiful, it can also feel lonely. Even if some discomfort is present, trust that your inner wisdom will ultimately give you the guidance you need to live more meaningfully in the outer world. Instead of asking others what you should do, turn within and ask yourself. Instead of focusing on external approval, ask yourself how you can be led by your own compass. Knowing who you are is a key part of living a magical life. The hermit creates a space for you to explore the varied dimensions of your own existence.”
Ava: Love it. What I noticed as soon as you pulled the Hermit card is that at the beginning of this call, you thought that today was a nine day and it was almost going to be the Hermit card.
Jasper: Yeah! That's a good point. Hmm….Mmm…All right! Should we do a rose, bud, thorn and see how that goes? So “roses” are gratitude, wins or highlights. “Buds” are something in the near future and “thorn” is a grief or a difficulty. Do you want to go for it?
Ava: Yeah, I will. Maybe we do like rose, rose, bud, bud, thorn, thorn. (Jasper: Oh, sure!) My rose is something that I'm grateful for is that I've finally gotten into the flow of a creative practice that I don't feel is a demand. Because I've always been a creative person and I tend to start creative projects and then at one point just feel like “I have to do it and I have to complete it” and it's not fun. The last leg of a project is just not fun. But I've been writing recently and it's been just so much fun and just something that I know I can just pick up and do at any time that I'm feeling inspired. And I haven't really had that before, so I'm really grateful for that.
Jasper: I love that. Yeah, you have definitely been creating some beautiful things. The collages and the writing that you've been putting on Substack are simply amazing.
Ava: I really appreciate that. Thank you.
Jasper: Let's see. What is my rose? Let's see, I'm actually having a hard time picking just one. I am also having an elevated creative flow and an internal wisdom attunement. I noticed in my last therapy session- I've been doing cognitive behavioral therapy for maybe a year now- I would start saying something that felt like a problem in my head, but then I was able to mid-sentence-translate that into what was actually happening. The whole session was like that. And I was like, Oh! I really have been benefiting from this practice of looking at my thoughts and being compassionate for the feelings in them, but like, translating what I'm worried or nervous or shaming about into what is actually happening, and that feels wonderful.
It feels really wonderful to see that psychological benefit in a quantifiable way, you know? Qualitative? Quantifiable? I don't know what word I mean. (Both laugh.)
Ava: I know what you mean though.
Jasper: And let's see, what else do I want to say? I'm feeling really excited about the new workbook. Updating the Tarot workbooks that we made last year. Because even though I've been practicing and researching Tarot for so long, I can't believe the way it's evolved in the past year. From me teaching free classes last spring to I'm about to start teaching classes this spring. Like the way I understand the history of the tarot and the way I understand… Oh, ew, the dog farted and it's really awful! (Both laughs!) It’s so bad! It completely erased everything in my brain! She's looking at me like, “I'm a good dog”. Yeah. So the things I understand about the history of tarot, I've been digging into Mary Kate Greer's Tarot For Yourself. Which I've been putting off for a long time because it's very- it's just nerdy in a way that I'm not. But I've been going through and kind of cherry picking the parts that really resonate with my practice. And it's giving me an opportunity to really articulate why I do certain things the way I do versus how somebody else might have been taught because Mary Kay Greer is right up there with Rachel Pollock, basically, when it comes to tarot. So, doing the hard work of growing and not thinking I know everything is definitely one of my roses.
Ava: Yeah, I love the common theme through those things is this idea of noticing and seeing the distinction between you and others, which is so Hermit vibes. Like, taking time to understand oneself so that you can see where the boundary is between you and another and see what you take for yourself and what you are like, okay, that's not I don't agree with that.
And you know, I think that's one of the gifts of the Hermit, so that we don't all assimilate and try to do the same thing and never have our unique expression. And I love what you're talking about with therapy, too, because that is such a kind analogy for how much of life works. Like, we, you don't really realize how you're changing and then all of a sudden you're like, oh, you start to see this space where you're like, oh, I can just observe what I'm doing right now and make that shift in the moment.
Jasper: Yeah. Something you, you just said made me think about the seed-starts that I have right now. One of the ways I'm unintentionally spending time is I'll go to check on my seeds and then I realize 20 minutes have gone by because I've just been staring at them and I'll be worried that like, this plant isn't growing like my calendula starts are like, I'm like, are you even growing at this point? And I'm staring at them every day. Like, are you growing? And then the next day I'll go and they're like half an inch taller. And I'm like, Oh, okay, growing isn't this steady incline. It's very much like all of a sudden you notice three new leaves, you know?
Ava: Yeah. It's kind of like that human phenomenon of the watched pot never boils, where you could, if you were paying attention to something, you could probably see it changing, but also giving it space on its own, you get that beautiful reminder that we can't always be looking at things. There's something else I wanted to say about the seed starting to, oh yeah, the way that you said that you'll, you'll sit and you'll realize time has just gone by. Sitting with nature.
It reminded me- I think it's kind of off topic, but I really want to share it. Recently I found a really big spider in our house and typically when I find really big spiders I try to get them outside. So I went to pick him up and put him outside, and instead I watched them start cleaning their little face and I was like “oh you're the cutest guy I've ever seen!” and it was that moment of like, I've always looked at this thing with fear, or I want space from it, and then I saw it in a vulnerable moment, and I was like, “wait, you're so precious! You can hang out here in this warm spot”, you know, (giggles) and it was dissolving that, because I gave it that space, you know?
Jasper: Oh, that's lovely, Ava! Aww! I'm just imagining you crouching, watching this little baby spider as they clean their face and look up at you with blinking eyeballs, of which there are many.
Ava: Yeah, they're like, “are you gonna touch me? No? Okay, cool”. So cute.
Jasper: Do you want to do thorns or buds next?
Ava: I think we should do thorns and then end with buds. I think that'll be like a nice progression. (Jasper: That was my thought too.) Yeah, so in terms of thorns, I think I really relate to the Hermit as somebody with a Virgo stellium, like, the Hermit is my guy. It’s the major arcana card associated with Virgo. And I think something that I grieve a lot is that I've been in a very isolated space. Where, I mean, compared to pre-pandemic, when I was just surrounded by people all the time and activities and doing things. And then, ever since the pandemic, I've had less and less social connection. And I think that's just something I grieve a lot, sometimes I miss the, like, you never know who you're going to run into and meet, because there's so many different people and everybody knows each other.
I also just moved to a new place, so I'm just meeting people. I think it's a process of establishing community in a new space. And figuring out where I fit in, in different groups that I want to be a part of. Which is very Hermit, I think, to see yourself in this kind of tower and being like, “oh, look at all these different things moving around me, how do I step into this current?” And yeah, I think that brings me a lot of grief at times because I just want to be at the point where we're having friend dinners and we're having celebrations or walks together, like, to have these connections where I could be like “Oh, you know what? I want to hang out with somebody right now”, but I'm not quite there yet.
Jasper: yeah, It's a little bit of liminal space.
Ava: Yeah. And I hang out in that space a lot. There's something that you read out of that book that I resonated with, it was like “distinguishing yourself from the norms”. I think that maybe you have these memories of things that felt good, but there's actually a lot about it you didn't like. I'm not really a big fan of being in a crowded room, you know, but I still think back to it and crave it at times because it's different from where I am now. And there's parts or elements of that that I want. So it's interesting how you're kind of like… yeah… “maybe I'll just go back to the norm”, but I didn't actually enjoy that in the way that I thought it did.
Jasper: Mm. Mm hmm. I've been listening to this podcast called AutieHD, so autism and ADHD, AutieHD Flourishing, and they were talking about this balance of when you’re Autistic, you really need time alone to regulate, but also being around people and letting your nervous system fall into harmony with their nervous system is regulating. So you really need to find this balance. And I thought that was really beautiful. And I've been finding that helpful for me with my PTSD and ADHD combination. To actually schedule time to be alone. And then every day make sure I'm around a human being. And I don't mean just like going to the grocery store, but, like, finding some way to either, at the least, talk to a friend on the phone, and at the most go see somebody. Even if it's like for ten minutes. But yeah, that space of how many people and how often do I need to be around for that to feel balanced.
Ava: Yeah, I think that's such a theme that I've experienced, I think, ever since I recognized how autism exists within me, I've really realized, like, a big part of that is finding who it's… I don't like to say safe, because it's not like there's a danger… but who I can really unmask around. Because I think that's part of that connection. So I've kind of become super reliant on being on my own because I feel like there's a sense of familiarity that my body wants to achieve with somebody before I feel like I can really just, you know… parallel play! I just want to like, you know, sit and do my own thing with somebody else doing their own thing. And that not being perceived as like me, like whatever some neurotypical person perceives that as. (Giggles).
Jasper: mm-Hmm. You know, it actually blows my mind that there are neurotypical people who are only used to being around neurotypical people. Everybody in my life is a neuroqueer or neurodivergent, you know? And I'm like, “you are literally in a different reality than me!” (laughter) I don't know what it's like to exist with neurotypical people!
Ava: Yeah. And I really think it's more like masked neurotypical people, because I've seen times where I've been stimming or, or needing to protect myself because I'm overstimulated- like putting in earplugs or not talking as much- and I've seen that kind of trigger people who have said they want to do the same thing, but they know they can't because of the social situation. And I'm like, “interesting (giggles). Like, it's safe, actually, for you to do that.” Like, you don't have to value your social status more than your, like, the care for your body. And it's just, the way people are raised, they have more to, like, unmask or see through. Depending on where you're existing and where you're, where you've been growing.
Jasper: Where you're existing and where you're growing. I love how we're always able to talk about magic and neurodivergence at the same time. It's almost as though we're walking our missions. All right. So my thorns, my grief or difficulty. So it's easy and obvious to move to like shift the conversation to Palestine when we're talking about grief and conflict. And there's so many things there to be in active grief about and active like catastrophe-mind about because it is a catastrophe.
What's coming up for me right now with Israel and Palestine is the prime minister of Israel, Benjamin Netanyahu has this thing of like “Hamas made us do it. This is Hamas's fault. Like, this is Hamas. Me starving people is not my fault. Hamas made me do this. It's all their fault.” And what that's bringing up for me is when it's very personal, one on one abuse, like, the abuser being like, “you brought this on yourself, you made me do this.” That is just like, where it hits me. This like, blatant abuse of power and this like, “you are the bad one, you made me do this.” That is the point where like… one of the ways that you experience love and understanding and compassion is to have a direct relation to the experience another person or another country or another community is having. So that is the point where my grief is really connected, where my personal experience is really resonating with what's happening.
And it's obviously way different and on a way bigger scale. But that is like, what's really coming up for me in my grief right now. The fact that a prime minister can continue to use, “they made me do it” and feel like that's very justified, you know.
Ava: Right. It's super triggering to see that abuse just gets to happen. Like I feel like when our 45th president… When he was up for reelection I was experiencing that so much too and I and I feel like it's the similar kind of like… You see how these people that we say are in power and are supposed to aid us or guide us, they just get to walk all over people and gaslight people. Like, I think that's a huge part of it. You know, Biden's been building a quote unquote temporary port to get aid into Gaza, but they've been able to get, like, 75 trucks in to help remove rubble, so that they can build the port out of the rubble. And it's clear to me that that port is being built. most likely for the U.S.'s access to Israel more than it is to actually help Palestine, because if they actually wanted to help Palestine, they would get aid in through the border that they just got trucks in to help remove the rubble. And we've seen so many examples of this since October 7th. But also before that, of how blatantly and across the world, not just in Palestine, but like how blatantly the U.S. would be like, “yeah, we're doing this to help.” And then they just murder people. And then continue, when people call it out and be like, “no, that's not what it is.”
And I think it's a similar abuse of power that so many of us experience individually, probably because those abusive individuals see people in power doing it and know that they can get away with it, too. It invites such anger and grief. I think that's really valid and important to think about.
Jasper: Yeah, it's really important to think about. I'm just taking a moment for all of that to like…
Ava: Yeah, a moment needed, yeah, for sure.
Jasper: All right, let's follow that up with some buds? Something in the near future that you're excited about, or something new that you're learning.
Ava: Yeah, kind of on that topic, which also I think is a companion to my thorn is that, I joined a pro Palestinian group here to connect to people, like, just to start to form those connections, and we have an event coming up on April 7th that I've been working on with them. All the organizers are very close, and I'm really excited to get started and be a part of it. I think that it's cool because it's a bike ride in support of the Gaza Sunbirds, which is a group of people who have had amputations because of Israeli attacks from Gaza and they were cyclists in Gaza. Recently they've been helping raise money to aid people in Gaza and they haven't been cycling because it's not safe to.
So we're doing a local mass “bike ride/any wheels welcome” ride to raise funds for them.We're selling baked goods and face painting, etc. And I think it's a really cool Aquarian method of growing and existing where it's like, “hey, where this thing needs our help and our support and our funds, we can, at the same time, have it be a place to gather community and a place to connect and a place to bring children. You know? Hitting all these boxes. It's just, it's super inspiring to me and I'm really grateful to be a part of it.
Jasper: It sounds like a spell to me as well as in “you are unable to do this thing right now. We're going to do it for you and we're going to do it for you in a way to lift you up.” It's a wonderful spell.
Ava: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah, it's really cool to be able to take away from the abstract of “there are people suffering” because so many people… when you experience and understand mass suffering you ask “what can I do to help”, you know? You feel kind of hopeless a lot of time, but to take that into something like a specific ritual of movement and getting specific forms of connection and ties to your personal life. I think that's what really ritualizes it for me because I can pull this thing from the ether into my life and see it and see the effects much more clearly.
Jasper: Yes! That piece of “what can I do? I'm one person. My life is so disconnected from that thing.” Yesterday I was doing research about Trans Day of Visibility. Which is now an internationally recognized day of celebration and observance of transgender lives. And the reason it started was because this person, Rachel Crandall Crocker, was just really annoyed that the only day transgender people were observed was a day that was about how many of us have been murdered. She got tired of waiting around for some sort of shift in that. So she wrote a Facebook post encouraging people to throw parties on March 31st, because that's the day that falls in the middle of Trans Day of Awareness and Pride, so it's not conflicting with those two things.
And she's like,” just go throw a bunch of parties that celebrate transgender life and joy and existence.” And she just emailed it to accounts all over the world. And then was like, “I'll just sit back and see what happens now. This might not go anywhere.” But it's that thing where you don't know which one of your actions can change the world. But because you're interacting with the world, some of your actions are going to! It's a pretty powerful story about how one of your actions can actually change the world, even if it seems so small compared to the rest of it.
Ava: It's similar, too, to watching those seeds grow. They might not grow right in front of your eyes, but tomorrow you'll notice the difference.
Jasper: Mm hmm. Yeah. That's a really good relation. Mm mm mm.
Ava: So what are you looking forward to?
Jasper: Yeah, my bud. I am going to a poetry reading and book signing with Mix Yaffa, who wrote a book called Blood Orange. And it's Palestinian poetry. I'm really excited about that. I have actually been experiencing activism through poetry lately by going to readings and fundraisers and through that (I'm waiting to buy it cause I have such a book buying problem), but there's a poetry collection by Masab Abu. Which I'm mispronouncing. I know, but I'm gonna link it in the show notes and the book is called “Things you may Find Hidden In My Ear, poems from Gaza”. I'm just so excited to get my hands on this book. I'm gonna take a moment though, because I think I have one of the poems.
So I learned about this poet because Firestorm is having these poetry reading fundraisers for Gaza, and it's really beautiful. Everyone comes together and listens to a bunch of poetry and a lot of community members, like massage therapists, tarot readers, artists, are donating things for the raffle. So, it's just been really lovely. The time that I went, they had this deconstructed zine of all of the poems. And this is “My grandfather was a Terrorist” by Mosab Abu Toha, which again, I apologize for the mispronunciation.
My grandfather was a terrorist—
He tended to his field,
watered the roses in the courtyard,
smoked cigarettes with grandmother
on the yellowish seashore lying
like a prayer rug.
My grandfather was a terrorist—
He picked oranges and lemons,
fished with brothers until noon,
sang a comforting song en route
to the farrier’s with his piebald horse.
My grandfather was a terrorist—
He made a cup of tea with milk,
sat on his verdant land, as soft as silk,
was incensed at the sun as it kept to blink.
My grandfather was a terrorist—
He departed his house for the coming guests,
kept some water on the table, his best,
lest the guests die of thirst after their conquest.
My grandfather was a terrorist—
He walked to the closest safe town,
dark as the sullen sky,
vacant as a deserted tent,
darkling as a starless night.
My grandfather was a terrorist—
My grandfather was a man,
a breadwinner for ten,
whose luxury was to have a tent,
with a blue UN flag set on the rusting pole,
on the beach next to a cemetery.
So, my bud is so closely connected to my thorn! My thorn is that grief of what's happening. And my bud is to be seeing the ways in which people are showing up, magically and beautifully and creatively. And I really do think that matters. It's a lot like the reason that Trans Day of Visibility was created because if we only look at the devastation and despair, we will only ever be aware of that and we have to have something to fuel our hope. So, that's like my bud is like seeing and experiencing poetry that is really trying to change the world.
Ava: Right, right. Right. What's coming up for me as we talk about that and reflecting on everything we've talked about is- there is a part for everyone to play in every movement. Creation is such a big part of that and finding hope and beauty. It is the role of the artist to spotlight the beauty and the hope through grief. I think that's such a cool theme throughout our conversation.
There’s a whole section of audio missing here about how this relates to strength and the star.
Jasper: Mm hmm. So I'm going to link our Firestorm affiliate to this episode and ask Firestorm to add those two books that I mentioned. And that way, any listener that clicks on that link can get those books for 10 percent off and it will help us, too. I want people to experience some of that beauty through poetry.
Do you, do you have any housekeeping announcements that you want to tag onto the end of this?
Ava: You have upcoming classes, in person, at Raven and Crone, which I'm excited about and I'm excited to help edit the workbooks so that they flow with that. And our substack, TikTok, Instagram, and Etsy are all beautifully attached to that, too.
Jasper: I just want people to know that we have no more website, QueerConjure.org does not exist anymore. I'm hoping that I can figure out how to hold on to the domain in case we want to open it up again, but I just want to say that in case, like, people go on to find us and they're like, “oh, Queer Conjure doesn't exist anymore because the website is down”. Like, we really, really do. We just didn't want to have an association with Wix because they're on the Boycott, Divest, Sanction list as somebody to actively boycott. They went from like, in the “pressure these companies” category to the full on “boycott this company” category. And that informed our decision to shut down our website. And I'm just not hecky inspired enough to build a new website right now. Cause we have so many other creative things going on.
Ava: Right. So also to note onto that, people can email us at queerconjure@gmail.com. If you have any advice for that, you know, that it's much easier than we think, please let us know.
Jasper: This is an idea, not an announcement, but I think I've been thinking about how many astrologers and tarot readers and witches, reiki practitioners, breath workers who are doing amazing work, but aren't winning the algorithm game. And I've also been thinking about how marketing is a very hard thing to do ethically. So I've been thinking about creating an online meetup for those practitioners to network and talk about ethical marketing. and ways to support each other. And I wanted to say that
we can edit this pause out later. My friend Lindsay,
Okay, So my friend Lindsay from Radiant Unknown Tarot included us in their last newsletter, which I thought was just so sweet. They made a list of the newsletters and the substacks they’re paying attention to and ours was on that list. So thank you, Lindsay! And Lindsay’s Radiant Unknown is an amazing, amazing newsletter. So I'm going to put Lindsay in our show notes, too.
Ava: Yeah, I think that's a great idea. Recently, a couple days ago, Instagram just started limiting political content, (and you can turn that off on your profile) and they're trying to ban TikTok. And it's very clearly in response to how people are grassroots organizing directly with people via the internet and how perhaps the algorithm does not work for people who are brilliant. So I think that's a great idea. Like take it out of Instagram then, you know, for my own-
Jasper: that’s fucked!
Ava: Absolutely. It is. It really is. Yeah. It's fascinating to see the things you post that will do really well one day and then the next day it's like no one has seen it. Like, oh. It goes back to the, like, abusive gaslighting thing, too, like, “oh, it's just probably you”. Maybe it's not me at all.
Jasper: That explains some things! All right. How do you want to end this?
Ava: Let's do jazz hands.
Jasper: Okay. Woohoo! Okay
Ava: Okay. Bye. Bye.
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